Wrinkles, Brown Spots & Skin Cancer: Why Sun Protection Matters

In this episode of Skincredible, Dr. Swanson and Ana dive deep into one of the most important — and most misunderstood — topics in skincare: sun protection. May is Skin Cancer Awareness month, so what a better time to explore options for protection! From sunscreen myths and tanning bed dangers to mineral vs. chemical sunscreens, SPF confusion, vitamin D debates, and even viral social media trends, this episode breaks down what’s fact, what’s fiction, and what actually protects your skin.

Dr. Swanson explains how UV exposure can cause skin cancer, why childhood sun exposure matters so much, and how sun damage contributes to wrinkles, brown spots, and premature aging. The conversation covers sunscreen ingredients, favorite dermatologist-approved products, protective clothing, hats, sunglasses, spray tans, Heliocare supplements, and practical ways to enjoy the outdoors while still protecting your skin.Plus: funny vacation sunburn stories, risks of contracting viruses with tanning bed use, the return campaign for COTZ Silky Foam sunscreen, a discussion about Australia’s impressive sun safety culture, and why every parent should watch the Bluey episode “The Pool.”Whether you’re a sunscreen skeptic, skincare enthusiast, outdoor adventurer, or parent trying to protect your kids, this episode is packed with practical advice, science-backed information that feels conversational and easy to apply (no sunscreen pun intended). Topics Covered:

• Mineral vs. chemical sunscreen
• SPF myths and misconceptions
• Tanning beds and melanoma risk
• Sun protection for kids
• Vitamin D and sunlight
• Spray tans vs. tanning beds or sun tanning 
• Sun-protective clothing and hats
• Tips for skin cancer prevention
• Anti-aging benefits of sunscreen
• Heliocare and antioxidant support
• Social media misinformation
• Favorite dermatologist-approved products

Thanks for listening to Skin Incredible! Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who would benefit!

A SPECIAL DISCOUNT CODE: Swim Zip was kind enough to offer 20% off EVERYTHING on their website for our listeners. Use the code “skincredible” at checkout at www.SwimZip.com or simply use this link to apply the code automatically: https://swimzip.com/discount/skincredible

Additional links or resources 

Trucker Article Reference

Fortification of Foods with Vitamin D Article I; Article II

Swim Zip

AAD Shade Structure Grant 

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Sun Protection

00:44 Personal Dermatology Stories

02:00 Understanding Sun Damage

04:00 Sunscreen Types and Controversies

11:44 Importance of SPF

16:14 Preventing Wrinkles, Sun Spots

17:22 Importance of Vitamin D

19:40 Products with Added Vitamin D

10:45 Tanning Beds

24:20 Tanning Addictions

25:00 Herpes and Genital Warts Via Tanning

28:22 Other Ways to Protect : Hats

33:22 Other Ways to Protect : SPF Clothing

37:00 Other Ways to Protect : Sunglasses 

40:00 Paramedian Forehead Flap

42:00 Sun In Australia

43:15 AAD Shade Structure Grant

43:45 Bluey The Pool

45:30 Social Media Whispers: Anal Sunning 

47:50 Social Media Whispers: Hormone Disruption 

 48:20 Social Media Whispers: Sunblocks VS. Sunscreen 

48:20 Social Media Whispers: Inflammation In the Skin

50:30 Heliocare

53:20 Social Media Whispers: Homemade Sunscreen

54:00 Social Media Whispers: Coral Reef

55:56 Humans Benefit From the Outdoors

57:26 Conclusion

The information shared on this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for personalized medical advice. Always consult your  physician regarding your health.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Skin Credible, where we tell you what you should know about your skin and how to blow.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Because your skin's incredible. Hello, everybody, and welcome to another amazing episode of the Skin Credible Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Lisa Swanson, and I've got Anna here. Yay! And we are going to be talking today about one of my favorite topics: sun protection. It's important. Yes. It's necessary. I remember being a young person, and I would go to see my dermatologist because I'm covered in moles. I'm moly. You guys were like this. Yes, very close. Yeah. And shout out to Dr. Suzanne Connolly if you're if you're listening. She was amazing and a real inspiration to me in terms of like going into dermatology.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

I think she's still practicing. I looked her up the last time you mentioned her.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

I think so.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Oh, it would be great to connect with her. I wonder, you know, sometimes when I'm at the AAD, if I'm just gonna like be walking around and lo and behold, there she'll be. But I always remember in her office, she had a sign, like a pretty sign, that said the first sign of skin cancer is a healthy tan. And you know, I think we all can appreciate that there is some niceness to a tan. Yes, yes. I can appreciate that. If I'm going on a vacation, I will get a spray tan. Just a spray tan. Just a spray tan. Well, I mean, my skin doesn't do anything like naturally. Naturally. No, I have two shades, white and pink. Yeah. That's all my skin does. Sure. So I get myself a spray tan to do that. But I'm also wearing my sunscreen and my hat and you know, doing all of those things because I know that sun causes damage in your skin.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Yeah, you're practicing what you preach here.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Yes. Yeah. Yes. And some people wonder like, how does the sun cause skin cancer? Yeah. And there's two real ways. Number one, it actually induces damage, like DNA damage to your skin, something called perimidine dimers. So it damages your skin. Okay. The second thing it does is it actually reduces uh the immune system's presence in the skin. Interesting. Your immune system every day is preventing skin cancer. It is identifying early disruptions in the skin and it is fixing them.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

So our bodies are working on our behalf even when we don't even know it.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Yeah, a hundred percent. They are they are preventing skin cancer every single day.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

As you get older, your immune system becomes less robust. Sure. The more sun you've had has induced more damage. It's hard for the body to keep up. Yeah. And the sun itself reduces the body's ability to correct those mistakes.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

The cumulative sun or just like the active sun? Both. Okay, okay. Both. Good to know.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

And studies show that we we get 80% of our cumulative lifetime sun exposure by the time we're 18. That blows my mind. I know. Well, it makes sense because like you're young, you're playing outside. Like, I don't know about you, and I I don't just like play outside. I exercise outside.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

We are on the greenbelt a lot, but yeah, yeah, I guess you don't go out with friends and just hang on the road.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Yeah. Yes. But when you're a kid, you're playing sport, um, you're at the park, you're at the water park, or swimming. So you're you're getting a lot of exposure during those years. So while sun protection is essential, in my opinion, for your lifetime. Yeah. Especially important for our littles. Yeah. Because they are the ones who are really getting a great deal of exposure. Right. And sunscreen is is one of our best ways to protect against the damage caused by the sun. Yeah. Now, there's been some controversy about sunscreen. Yeah. Right. And I think there's a couple things. So most of the controversy stems from chemical sunscreens. Yes. So when you look at a bottle of sunscreen, like we have some examples here, on the back, they always have to list the active ingredient. Sure. And they have it in a box. And it's supposed to be very clearly labeled active ingredient. Yeah. I like sunscreens that have zinc and or titanium. If you look at the back and it has long names that are hard to pronounce, okay, those are our chemical sunscreens. Gotcha. And while I'm a firm believer that all sunscreen is a good idea. Sure. If I can be picky and want to avoid some controversy, I'm going to go with the zinc titanium-based product. Safe. Yeah, safe. The chemical sunscreens got into trouble for two reasons. Number one, coral reefs. They they found that there was some impact of some of the chemical sunscreens on coral reefs. Yes. And of course I want to protect our environment 100%. Number two, there was a study that suggested that you could get systemic absorption of the chemical sunscreen ingredients. Now this study was very uniquely set up. So they had these patients apply sunscreen all over their bodies four times a day for four days and then they drew their blood.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

I think I heard about this study. Was it like in 2019?

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Yes. Okay. Yes. And so they found evidence of these chemical sunscreens in the blood. Okay. Two big beefs with the article. Number one, nobody uses sunscreen that way. Sure. Not even a dermatologist uses sunscreen that way. Yeah. You know, I apply when I'm outside. I apply every two hours when I'm outside, but I'm also not putting it like all over my body head to toe. And I'm not doing it for four days straight.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Oh, they applied it like everywhere? Everywhere. Oh. Yes. Not just like my arms because they're exposed and my neck. Okay. Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Yeah. That's that's an important thing to know. A very important distinction. Um, and then number two, a lot of people have argued we don't actually know that there's harm if you absorb a little bit of a bigger. Sure, just because it's in your bulk. Just because it's there doesn't mean it's bad or doesn't mean it's like hurting you. Sure. So those are the two biggest kind of controversies about the chemical sunscreens. And I stay above the fray. I, in general, I like the zinc titanium stuff better. I do too. It protects better, it's less irritating. Some people will have irritation reactions to the chemical sunscreens. It protects against UVA and UVB. And the zinc-based sunscreens have come a long way. It's not that thick white stuff that you saw on lifeguards on Baywatch. Yeah. They micronize the zinc to make it rub in more nicely. Maybe they add some tint to it to help disguise that whiteness. So we've really come a long way with these mineral sunscreens. I always try to make the point that like the physical blockers, the physical sunscreens, they're they're mineral-based, zinc and titanium are minerals. They are actually safe down to any age. Oh wow. Whereas chemical sunscreens are aged six months and up. Oh, okay. And in a way that makes sense because zinc is the active ingredient in diaper paste.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

So we're using zinc on babies from like day one all the time. Weird question. Would you be able to use a butt rash cream on your face if you ran out of sunscreen and you had your baby bag with you? You absolutely could. And it would do a very job.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Yes. You would be very thick and white. For example, so like Desitin Max, which is my favorite diaper paste, it has 40% sink in it. This face sunscreen made by Vana Cream. Again, nobody sponsors us, nobody, nobody supports us. Um, and so these are just things that I use, and so I wanted to share them. But this Vanac Cream face lotion with sunscreen that I use every day has, let me see. Oh my gosh, my eyes, 19.5%.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

So like it's you know, and there's technology in there to help make it so it rubs in nice and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

They're so nice now. Like even the like tinted, I like the tinted sunscreens, the mineral ones. Yes. Um, they just feel good, they don't feel as like just goopy. 100%, yeah. Yeah, because sunscreen has come a long way, just in general. I agree.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah. A couple other products. So I I use the face lotion uh with sunscreen by Vanna Cream, which is great, 19.5% zinc. I love the L to MD Mist, UV Mist. Okay. It's a spray on zinc-based sunscreen. Love, love, love. The one thing that's important to remember about a spray, I see this happen all the time when I'm on vacation. The parents just like miss their kids in like a cloud, and then the kid like goes off to do their thing. You do need to rub it in. Yeah. You do need to rub it in. So, but it's nice, it kind of gets it everywhere, and then you can rub it in and spread it. Um, LTMD products, you can get them on Amazon. They're also typically sold in like every dermatologist's office. Pretty much every derm office carries it. The LTMD line focuses on zinc titanium-based products. Yeah. And then coats. I have I have a message for coats. Coates. I hope you're listening. Yes. Like turn up the volume. Um, so coats is a great brand. Coates stands for contains only titanium and zinc. Easy. I like it. Easy. So a very clean, clean line made for folks with sensitive skin. My brother, a redhead, super sensitive. Coates is like the only thing he'll use. Okay. Okay. He's also tactily sensitive, doesn't like the way things feel. Sure. He deals with this. That's good to know. It's good to know.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

We have lots of tactile, sensitive listeners, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Tons, tons. Well, and a lot of kids with eczema have tactile sensitivities. So Coates makes a whole line of sunscreens. They have their like basic one. This is their face one. It has a little bit of tint added to it. Okay. Coates had this product, silky foam.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Ooh. Reminds me of like the foaming tans.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Yes. It was so nice. Oh man. It like felt so good, spread so nice. Even the kids would use it. It was really, really awesome.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

It seems kind of fun.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

It was fun. Yeah. And very, very recently, the foam disappeared. The foam has been discontinued. And at AAD, I went to the Coates booth. Yeah. And I said, What's the deal? They couldn't explain. Oh. They couldn't explain. They didn't even know. I've sent several letters. You have! Yes! I want the silky foam back. We'll tag them. Yes. Because the kids would use it. Yeah. Um, so coats, if you're listening, please bring back the silky foam. For now, I like this, and I still like you, Coates. I still like you. But the silky foam was such a nice product.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Silky foam just sounds so nice too. Like it sounds like something luxurious to put on your skin.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

It really was, and it was very moisturizing too. So it was so great for kids with eczema. Yeah. Because not only was it sunscreen they could tolerate, but it was actually moisturizing their skin. So it was really, really a wonderful product. So if you're at the store or you're shopping on Amazon and you're like, which sunscreen? I think it is all about ingredients. Zinc and titanium is my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Important.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

But sometimes what I'll tell folks is like, the sunscreen you like the best is the best one for you. Because otherwise you won't wear it. Exactly. Yeah. So if there's a product that you love and you'll use and and you know you enjoy it, it works for you, awesome. Go for it. Awesome. Go for it. Okay. But if you have concerns about chemical sunscreens, if you have sensitive skin, if you just want to be the most kind of natural about your sun protection, zinc and titanium is generally the way to go. The other question I get from folks is does SPF matter? Is there a point at which it doesn't matter?

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Is the highest 100?

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

I think the FDA was like, we have to have a limit to this. You know? Okay. So I would say SPF does matter. Okay. For two reasons. Number one, we are not applying sunscreen in real life for real life, like we say, Louis. We are not applying sunscreen in real life like they do in the trials when they're determining SPF. They are gobbing it on, caking it on, very thick. Nobody's using it that way. So you can imagine that your practical SPF is about half what the number says on the bottle. Half? That's a lot. Which that's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, so that's thing number one. Okay. Going with a higher SPF gives you some wiggle room because even if it is half, sure. You know, you're still protecting so good. Yeah. Number two, there was a very creative study done by a group of dermatologists where they went to Vail back in Colorado, where you and I both used to live, and they recruited patients for this one-day study. And they applied SPF 100 to one half of their face and SPF 50 to the other side of their face. Nice. And they did this at the beginning of the ski day. They were instructed to reapply at lunch, and then they saw how they did at the end of the day. And the pay and the sides of the face with SPF 100 did so much better than the 50. Interesting. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

So you could just tell because they were like a little more burn on that side or something. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Skiing, outdoor sports in the in the winter time, like some of the worst sunburns I've ever seen because people aren't thinking about it as much. It's nice and cold and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

So bright out there, too. The sun.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Yes, yes. Well, and when you're skiing, A, you're at altitude. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, especially like the ski hills in Colorado, Vale is at like 9,000 feet. Very high, yeah. So you're very high, you're close to the sun. Number two, um, the sun is hitting you from the sky and also reflecting off the snow.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Double whammy.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Double whammy. So you're getting hit twice. Yeah. My aunt once, she actually sunburned her eyeballs. She forgot to wear sunglasses or ski or goggles when she went skiing. It was horrible. It was horrible. It was horrible. Yes. And you're like, well, I'm not looking up at the sun. How does that happen? It's a reflection. There was one time Larry and I were on a beach vacation. I was under a palapa. You know, I was in the shade.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

I was several, I was numerous yards from the water.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

So, because sometimes if you're close to the water, you'll get that reflection off the water too.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

But I was far away from the water. In fact, there was like a hut that had like paddle boards and stuff, like in between me and the water. I was reading a book. I was wearing my hat, even though I was under a palapa. I was wearing my hat. And I had a towel covering me. And I'm reading a book. And you couldn't be more sunburned. Yeah. Right? I go inside to get ready for dinner. And I have sunburned the back of my right arm. And I'm like, how on earth? It was reflection off the sand. Oh. The white sand. I mean, oh my gosh. So I mean, even when you try to do your absolute best of your ability, like sometimes sunburns happen. There was another time we were going to uh opening day of the Rockies, and it was a nice day, so I was wearing a tank top and I put on sunscreen. But like, you know, you're putting on sunscreen on your arm, and then you go this arm, and I missed like a sliver of skin between like my tank top and because your your arm creases. Sure. And so I missed just like a sliver, and so I had these like little sliver sunburns.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

I've done that to the back of my neck, like I had a triangular little like where I just like missed a spot, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Oh man. Um, and so you know, the sunburns do happen, but you know, taking the proper steps to try to protect yourself, very, very important. And not just in terms of preventing skin cancer, but also preventing wrinkles. Yeah. Preventing brown spots.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Sometimes that's more motivating, honestly. People don't want to get old looking.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Like studies have proven this. Yeah. That it's more effective to counsel people about the risk of brown spots and wrinkles than it is to counsel them about skin cancer.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Especially with the Sephora craze. You gotta tell the kids. I know.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

I think I think the biggest downside with the teen skincare craze is just money, unnecessary money spent. I think that's you don't need things you don't need. But the one good thing is a lot of those products do have sunscreen in them.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

And if our young people are using sunscreen because they like this particular skincare line, then I'm more power for it. So not only are you preventing skin cancer by protecting your skin from the sun, you are also aging gracefully.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Yeah, a lot of people are wanting to age gracefully. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Longevity is the buzzword now. Buzzword, yeah. We want to live longer and we want to look better than ever before.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Um, and so sunscreen is a great way to do that. Sometimes people tell me, I don't want to wear sunscreen because I want to get vitamin D.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Yes, I've seen this a lot on social media. It's healthy to get vitamin D.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Of course. Vitamin D is important, crucial for your bones, like very in your general health. Vitamin D is very important.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

Um, however, we get vitamin D through our diet and then through the sun. And there is a daily limit of how much vitamin D you can get from the sun.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

And they actually did a study to determine how long does it take to maximize your vitamin D absorption from the sun in a day. Okay. And it's 11 minutes. 11 minutes of exposure. That's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Oh my gosh, it's a quick walk or drive.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Yeah, in the car. A lot of people don't realize, like, we get a lot of sun exposure through car windows. Yeah. And they've done studies looking at like truck drivers, long haul truck drivers, and they're a mess of skin cancers on the left side of their face. The left side of their face also looks older.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

So interesting. I once saw a picture like on a magazine or something, and I was like, the face literally like sagged almost on one side compared to the other. Like, this is the same person.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yes, yes, yes. And so that's real exposure that you don't think about, but it adds up. Most people are getting their 11 minutes with just in and out of school, in and out of work.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

It doesn't have to be 11 minutes at once.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

It could just be 11 11 minutes. And that study was done at sea level. So like Denver's a mile high, 5280, Boise's 2500, roughly. So a shorter amount of time. Right. So yes, vitamin D is important. Yeah. But you actually don't typically need to try to get, you know, you don't need to make a concerted effort to get the vitamin D from the sun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Unless you're a total gamer or like homebody basement liver.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Yes, that's true. That is true.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

That is true. Those people might just be taking a supplement, maybe.

unknown 19:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

Yes. And that's okay too. You know, I think next time you go to your doctor, have them do a panel, have them include vitamin D because you could easily do a supplement if it was still low. Yeah. I think where we suffer with vitamin D is that it's hard to consume it in our food. You might notice that milk is fortified with vitamin D, cereal is fortified with vitamin D.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Those products, like cereal especially, doesn't naturally have vitamin D in it. It was a move by, I forget, some agency of our government that said we need, it was for kids, we need to put vitamin D in cereal.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Is that the same thing that there was like they were like enriching something with like was it iron? I can't remember. Yeah. Just like because of development.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Yes, yes, yes. And so that's been added to cereal and things. But like as an adult, I don't eat a lot of cereal. And the number one source of vitamin D, like the food with the highest amount of vitamin D is cod liver oil.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Ew.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

I'm sorry. Grips. I'm not doing it.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

I guess they sell capsules, maybe, but yeah, ooh, gross. Yeah. Ugh.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Yeah. Um, and that's where our deficiencies actually usually come from. It's just like we're not getting enough from our diet. Okay. So vitamin D is important. Yeah. But you don't really have to expose yourself to a ton of sun to get your daily dose of vitamin D. That's fair. Um now tanning beds. Ooh. Tanning beds are bad. Bad, bad. Sunscreen, good. Yeah. Tanning beds, bad. Tanning beds are bad for a couple different reasons. Okay. Number one, they dramatically increase the risk of melanoma. Melanoma is the worst. And melanoma is the worst. It can kill you. It can metastasize and kill you. And especially if you are moly like me, yeah. Please do not ever set foot in a tanning bed. So in our sunlight, we have UVA and UVB light. Okay. And it's kind of a mix. But when tanning beds came out, they advertised themselves as safer than natural sun because they're mostly UVA light. Sunburns are caused by UVB. Okay. So they said, hey, we don't cause sunburn. Sure. We're healthier.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Well, it turns out UVA is the cause of melanoma. So you are lying in basically a melanoma incubator is basically what you're lying in. Studies have shown even 10 trips to a tanning bed increase your risk for melanoma substantially.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Wow. I'm thinking back to like all the girls in high school with their little Like they would put these like stickers and then they were tan and then you have like the white spot. It's like such a trend. I mean, I obviously was born tan, so I never never stepped a foot in a tanning bed, but it was like very it was the popular thing to do, like the girls who were cheerleaders or palms, like that's what they did. Yes, yes, scary.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

And people will sometimes do it thinking that they're getting like a base tan.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Oh, that's a big thing online. Base tan or base coat, I think some people call it. Tell us about the base tan.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

So um you don't need it. Yeah. And it's bad to get it via a tanning bed. You know, it is true that like there are some people out there where the first big sun exposure of the season, they might get a little bit of a sunburn. It transitions to a tan, yeah, and then they're less likely to burn the rest of the summer. Sure. That phenomenon is true for a lot of people. Yeah. Not me. I burn every time, all the time. It doesn't matter. But there are some people where their skin type is such that that that is a true phenomenon. Yeah. However, we we still don't want any degree, ideally, any degree of tan, because again, the first sign of skin cancer is a healthy tan.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yeah. And that's all accumulative.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yeah. If you are a person that enjoys the outdoors and wants to get some sort of base color, probably the safest way would be like little increments. So like 15 minutes a day or something without sunscreen, um, 20 minutes a day, 20 minutes three times a week. Yeah. Um, that is reasonable. Okay. Um, but please don't go. Don't go out and lay out. And don't go out on tanning out.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. No tanning beds, no laying out. No. Got it.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

And plus, even the color of a tanning bed tan is kind of weird. Yeah. You know, like I if I'm walking around and I see a person who's tan, you can kind of tell if it's tanning bed tan or natural sun tan. The tanning bed tan, it has like a weird color to it.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

And it's like, there's a guy back in collar, I think he tanned like three times a day. And it was like a, I think maybe an addiction, um, which happens. It was like leather skin. Like almost elephanty, you know.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

And you touched on something important. For some people, whether it's laying out in the sun or using tanning beds, it can be addictive. Like they've they've done studies that it can release the same kind of neurohormones as people who have a gambling addiction or have a drug addiction. It can trigger the same things in your brain. Interesting. And there are some people where they're kind of hooked on the tanning, which can make it. I don't think there's a tanner's anonymous group. Not yet that I'm aware of. Not yet. Yeah. Yeah. One should be started. Maybe, yes. Maybe this is something that we should work on. A difficult habit to break, but still nonetheless important to break it because tanning beds are bad. There was another study showing that it was more effective to warn teenage girls about contracting herpes and genital warts from the tanning bed than it was to warn them about the risk of melanoma. Gross. Because you can, right? Other people's skin has lied has lied there.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

And since I've never been there, like, do they do you have some sort of covering or are you just like naked?

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Some people choose to go on natural. Okay, okay. And some people will wear like their swimsuit, but some people will go. Yeah, so there's I mean, anything that's on the and then you're lying there. And like, you know, they're supposed to clean them. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

We all know that doesn't probably happen as much as it should.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And how well do the do their cleaners really kill?

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah. What are they using? Like, are they wiping every surface? Are they letting it touch the surface for as long as it should? There's a lot of factors there. All of these things. We all learned through COVID that all is not as it seems when you clean.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Yes. Very true. Very true. So tanning beds, please, please don't. Just don't. Please don't.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

There's better ways now.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

There's better ways. And again, if you want to have that tan look, I I think spray tans are great. The one precaution with spray tans, I will spray tan if I'm going on a beach vacation, which might happen once a year, maybe twice. Sure. I think there could be some danger if you're like a chronic spray tanner and you're doing it like once a week or once every couple weeks, because you do breathe all of that in. Oh yeah. I don't think there's a danger to your skin. Yeah. Unless maybe cumulatively, I don't know. I could see it maybe irritating if it was just like a chronic thing. But no, no, like serious danger to your skin.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

But I just worry about respiratory-wise.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

What do those chemicals do with prolonged, increased exposure over time? Yes. So that would be my one caution there. But for special events, for the prom, for a vacation, for a wedding, like get your spray tan once. This was like, gosh, Larry and I were at the beginning of our relationship. So it was probably like 16 years ago. And we were going to go on a trip. I forget where, but I got a spray tan. And when you get a spray tan, it's supposed to like stay on overnight. Yeah. And then you wash in the morning. Okay. And that's because there's like a bronzer that's put on so they initially can like see where it's all going. But then there's also some chemicals that kind of activate over time. So I'm fresh from my spray tan and I go to meet up with Larry and some friends, and Larry accidentally spilled his beer down my leg. Oh no. And it wiped all that spray tan right off. And I was like, what my spray tan? So yeah, be cautious with your beverages.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Did you just go forth in a line of whiteness?

SPEAKER_02 27:46

I did. I did.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

You're such a trooper. I know. I know. Yes, yes. Did you get Larry back?

SPEAKER_02 27:53

No. Although one time we were going on a trip and I I made him get a spray tan. The other thing about spray tan is that it provides an SPF of four.

unknown 28:02

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

So you get a little bit of sun protection. You know, like that's that's the other thing I want to touch on, like, despite all of this, and despite knowing that these mineral sunscreens, zinc and titanium-based, are totally safe and very effective. Say you just don't want to use sunscreen. Sure. What are other ways you can protect yourself? There's really a lot. So number one, just picking your time of day to be outside. Sure. You know, avoid the peak hours of the day where the sun is the brightest. On your phone, you can check the UV index. Yeah. And it tells you exactly what it is outside.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

So you can pick and choose your times that you're enjoying the outdoors to reduce your exposure. Number two, hats. Love hats. Yes, tell us about your hats. I have hats everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

You do have hats everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

In all my purses, in my backpack, in my car.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Upstairs, downstairs. Upstairs, downstairs. Any door.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Yes, yes. In my carry-on bag that I travel with. But this is the swim zip hat that I love. Swim zip. And actually, made in Boise. Best part. Yeah. And again, you know, no sponsorship or anything like that. But however, they did agree to give a promo code for a discount. 20% off. So nice. And not only do they make great hats, but they also have like um swim, like swim clothes, swimsuits, and things with SPF in them and everything like that. So lots of options there. So we're very grateful to Swimzip for giving our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

We're so grateful. Yeah, they're so they're so friendly too over there.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Just like Boisey. I mean boy.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

So boisey.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

This is my favorite Swimzip hat.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

It is very white.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

It is very wide. It has a great curvature. Yeah. So it really kind of shades the face, has a little bit of a handmaid's tail bit to it.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

But that's popular nowadays. I mean, there's a show, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Right. But it's it's okay. But I do really like the curvature of it. And it's able to protect your ears as well. Okay. And it kind of shades your face, I think, in a very effective way. Good. Also, it has this cute little bow in the back.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

The bow is my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

It's so cute. And and for your ponytail. It's so cute. Stick it right through there. Yes, yes. And so this is probably the hat I wear most often if we're like walking the green belt or whatever. Love the swim zip.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Oh, and technically you forgot to tell us about the zipper function. I know you don't love a visor, but I know.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

So it has a zipper. And you She's not excited. I'm not excited. And you can unzip and take off the top of it so that you can wear it as a visor. The reason I don't like this, the top of our head is so vulnerable to a great deal of exposure. And especially if you're a female, you do not want a skin cancer on the top of your head. Yeah. You don't want that. Because then they have to shave an area of your head, cut it out. You have a scar on the top of your head that won't grow hair. It's a it's a big deal. Yeah, it is a big deal. It's a lot to go through. To this day, they really have not made a great sunscreen for the scalp. Yeah. With all the technology and products these days, I I hope one day we do.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

There was a mineral sunscreen that was a powder we came with a brush. And I used to use that on my face, and I have thin hair up here, and so sometimes like if I knew I was gonna be out for a long time, I would try the powder there, but it is hard. And the powders are probably the best we've got.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

Like there's like brush on block and um color science pro, color science, I think. Makes a powder, and those are probably the best thing for like part lines and stuff, especially for like athletes. You can't wear a hat when you're playing soccer, yeah, you know. Although they should change the rules and maybe allow it. Right. That would be great.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

I didn't know that was a rule.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Right? So yes, the swim sip hat has a visor function. I don't like it. Okay, it's cute. I like it as a hat. And then this hat is made by a company called Wallaroo. And Walleroo is based out of Boulder, Colorado, which is near and dear to me because I went to the University of Colorado Boulder, Go Buffs. Go buffs. And this is their hat called The Scrunchy.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

It's so cute.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

It's so cute, it really has a good look to it, and it's called the Scrunchy because you can literally scrunch it up, put it in your purse, put it in a backpack, put it wherever, and every time it comes out, it looks just fine. Nice. And then it has this um string in the back so you can tie it tight if you're like on a boat or it's a windy day to make sure it stays on your head. So I love the Wallaroo scrunchie. They do make a petite scrunchie, which has a smaller brim. No.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Choose the wide brim. Yes. A funny story about when um I was on safari in Africa, I was wearing a kulabar hat. I remember I think Dr. Servic got me like a coupon when we were in Denver. Yeah. Um, and it was this reversible hat, it was so cute. It flew off the van. Yeah. Like when we were looking at the lions, it was scary. I don't even remember how the tour guy recovered it, but I was like, I'm not going out there with the lions, you go. Later on, you see a lion wearing it. Yeah, the lion.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

So fashionable. Coolie bar, I like that. Yeah, yeah. No, Koolie Bar is also one of my favorites. I just didn't have one of their hats handy to bring in today, but I I do like a coolie bar hat too. Yeah. They make cool stuff. All the brands make sun protective clothing too, which segues nicely to the next way you can protect yourself: sun protective clothing. Yeah. Sun protective clothing has come so far.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

I remember you told us about those gauzi shirts that your brother would wear. I'm like, I can't imagine, but that sounds horrible.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

My poor redheaded brother growing up in Arizona with a pretty neurotic mom, and he was wearing generation 1.0 of the swim shirt. It was awful, Anna. Yeah. I I think I have visions right now of my brother. And like all the other kids are like, play. Everybody's in the pool all the time. And my poor brother is just like in this like gauzy white like frock. And um, yeah, poor guy. Now it's all so cute.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Yeah. So then he can thank your mom now for not having skin cancer so far, hopefully.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

It's very true. Yeah. My brother has not had a skin cancer. And as a redhead who grew up in Arizona, that's a big deal. Yeah, it is a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so, you know, I I I have wonderful like little zip-up sun protection shirts.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

I have some from Athletica that are like button up and they don't even look like sun shirts anymore. They're so cute. They're really sweet. And they're lightweight and they're not hot. Yes. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

That's the key to the special material is just like it protects you without you getting overheated. Yes. Which you know I'm very vulnerable to and I don't like. Yeah, I don't either.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

You dislike it more than I do, but I still don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

My mood can turn from happy go lucky to really pissy like that, but I'm hot. Um, we took a a rafting trip, like a fly fishing rafting trip a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

And I bought me and Larry these shirts from Coolybar. And when you put them on, they kind of look like they have it like just like a cowl neck top. And then you can bring the front of it up onto your face. You can bring the back of it up over here. It covers your ears. Wow. So if you wear sunglasses, you are completely covered.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

And it even had like a little hook for your middle finger to put so it protected the back of your hands.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

It was great.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

It's up my alley. I just don't like the sun. Even before I worked in dermatology, my swimsuit has thumb holes and it goes up to like here. Long sleeved. Yeah. It just feels better to me. Definitely feels better. I don't like the beams on my skin, but I know some people like that. Some people feel like that's like therapeutic to them. I I don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

I feel like I'm on fire.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Yeah, I do too. Yeah. I'm like, ooh, ooh, I have to like rub it out or something.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I particularly love what Tommy Bahama has going on right now. Okay. So we were in Hawaii in January. Yeah. And we I was shopping, as you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

That's hard for you.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

As I do. And there's a Tommy Bahama on like every corner. And so we went in actually looking for something for Larry. And I ended up in the ladies section. Of course. And they have such cute little swim outfits. Oh, nice. So I got three of them. So they they have like a bottom that has like a little skirt. I'm a woman of a certain age, so I like a I like a swim bottom with a skirt. They're cute. And then uh like a uh tankini. Okay. And then like a little like I guess jacket would be the best word, like with a zip up front, and a collar that comes up.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

And so I it was so great because I could walk around the resort in it and feel covered and feel confident. Yeah. I could go swimming in it.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

Yeah. It was really, really great. So I bought three little outfits. Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Three of them. Nice.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

Yeah. It was a lot.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Yeah.

unknown 36:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Um, but it was for going in for something for Larry.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

That's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

But we did get Larry got a nice men's uh swim shirt, too. So we got him. He wasn't as excited about his purchases as I was about. I wanted to also talk about sunglasses. Okay. So sunglasses are not only fashionable, they are a very effective way to protect your skin from the sun.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Are all sunglasses created equal?

SPEAKER_02 37:21

No. Okay. Certainly a better brand protects your eyes better than if you buy like a pair of sunglasses at the dollar store or whatever. Um not to say you have to spend a boatload, but I think there is kind of a quality spectrum. Um we like a big so I love that big sunglasses are in because what a great way to protect that sensitive area of your face. It is pretty much impossible to put sunscreen on your eyelids. Sunscreens are not really created for there, except for there's a skin suiticles eyelid sunscreen. Oh, interesting. So if you were doing something where you couldn't wear sunglasses, yeah, um, skin suiticals does have an eyelid sunscreen. But nobody wants a skin cancer on their eyelid. No. Oh my gosh, no, there's not a lot of skin there.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Yeah, just to like go through that procedure. They probably have to like put an eye shield in you or something. Oh no. And you're awake. No. You're awake. Anything with eyeballs. I have a friend whose mom gets injections inside her eyeball, and I'm just like, I can't.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

Like I can do a lot of like bloody stuff and cysts, but like eyeball injections. I know.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

I'm the same way. In fact, you should see me at the eye doctor when I'm just getting my eyes checked for my body. The blow test, the little I I mean, all parts of it. All of it. I don't like any of it. And like, you know, when I'm in there and they're trying to look, it's almost like I have epilepsy because I'm like eh.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

I'm like, you don't understand. I think I have to hold it open for you because I I can't.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

And there was one time when they had to put like drops in. I forget if it was like to like dilate my eyes or something. Sure. And they put the drops in, I'm like, oh no, oh no, I can't open my eyes. And they're like, it's psychological. And I'm like, um, okay. So I get it. Psychological. Psychological. So imagine me trying to have a a seat cancer removed from my eyelid. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

That would be devastating. I think of in our family, the um eyelids run a little loose, and I always think of like if I got one cosmetic project, it would be a plepheroplasty. Yeah. And the thing I I saw a girl who had it and then she couldn't like fully close her eyes for like a week. I think it was due to the swelling, but I'm like, that not being able to fully close my eyes would give me so much anxiety. I could not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

So and it would also look creepy if somebody saw you sleeping and you're like, I can't partially open you.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

So no to the eyelid skin cancers for everybody. Right. We all agreed we don't like this.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

We don't like it. So wear your sunglasses. Another point to that, it's true that most skin cancers can be surgically removed and you can be okay. Sure. That is true. Yeah. But undergoing the surgery is not fun. No. If you have so eyelid, of course, we don't want.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

We also ideally don't want a nose, skin cancer, a skin cancer on our nose. Because when they remove skin cancer, they cut out the skin cancer, and then they stretch your skin to close it up. There's not much laxity to the skin on your nose. It's hard to like push and pull more skin. So sometimes they have to take a strip of skin from your forehead, move it, twist it down to place on your nose, leaving it attached for three weeks. Yeah. So that the blood supply gets started. And then three weeks later, they sever it. You have a scar here, and you have the area on your nose.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

I've seen some of those flaps. I mean, they're amazing that people can do them, and that's so great, but they're just not fun. And like there's graphs, you know, and how you have to take care of it. And then sometimes you can't fly right away and you can't work out, and people get upset about that. And so it's like just avoid it altogether if you can. I know, I know.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

And and for those of you who are interested, it's called a paramedian forehead flap. Look it up, Google it. And I think that's like I I think the prevention of skin cancer should probably just be a video of that procedure. Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

And people be like, oh no, thanks. Okay, no thanks. I don't want to go through that. I don't want to go through that.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

And so those are other ways. So if if sunscreen, even though we know that these mineral sunscreens are safe and very effective, if sunscreen just isn't your thing, or if you want to augment your sun protection, really all of these wonderful ways are available. So that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

It's great. There are options.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

We can't get through an episode without mentioning Australia. Of course, naturally. The sun is very intense there. Yeah. I studied abroad there for six months in college, and I lived in a house with 10 other people. Several of the folks were from the Northeast and they had like the beautiful Italian dark skin. Yeah. And they were used to going to the Jersey Shore and just like laying out and getting tan and everything. They went to the beach in Sydney and within minutes got sunburned for sometimes the first time in their lives.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

So the sun is a whole different creature down there in Australia. And they are very good about their sun protection practices, especially for the little kids. So by law, all playgrounds are covered with a shade structure.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

It's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

Kids are required to wear a hat and sunscreen when they go outside to play at school. It's like it's the rules. And that they are mitigating their risk for skin cancer for their young people by doing this sorts of things. So kudos to Australia.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Yeah. That would have saved me some like burnt legs too from like sliding down the hot slide.

unknown 43:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

If they had a shade.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

Oh, 100%. 100%. Um, also, the American Academy of Dermatology here in the United States has a shade structure grant program. So a school can apply and the AAD will provide a shade structure free of charge.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Now you will need a dermatologist to send a letter of recommendation. I recently did this for a local Boise school. We recently were informed that we're getting the shade structure. So for Dallas Harris Elementary School, we're getting a shade structure courtesy of the AAD. These are great things. So if you're listening out there, mention it to your children's school. These are things that are available, these are resources that are available. And then Bluey. There's an episode of Bluey called The Pool. You had me watch that. It's so cute. That was your homework. I was like before we record the Sunscreen episode, you need to watch the pool.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

I was a little frustrated at first, but the end was great.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

Wasn't it so cute? So cute. So in the pool, the episode starts where Bluey and Bingo and Dad are saying that mom is boring. Boring. Because she's just like, you know, brush your teeth and pack your sunscreen and do all that kind of stuff. And so, like, you're boring. We're going to the pool, and mom is staying home.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Yeah. And Dad is like, yeah, I'm the fun one. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Like he's like, I'm the cool parent. And they get there, and they're like, oh, we forgot our flip-flops. Oh, we forgot our sunscreen. Well, we'll just swim in the shady end. Oh, we forgot our floaties. Bingo forgot her floaties. Louie forgot her diving toys where she could dive down and get it. And so their experience at the pool is suboptimal. Yeah. Yes. And then towards the end, mom shows up with all of the things.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Saves the day.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Saves the day. And it's just such a wonderful episode. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

I thought the moving of the sun was funny because he had them stay in the shade. Yes. And then the shade kept moving. And they ended up in this like tiny little corner of the kitty pool.

unknown 45:09

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

Oh my gosh. Such a good episode. So good. So for listeners out there, please watch Bluey the Pool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

It's a great one. Yeah. So cute.

SPEAKER_02 45:19

Um, and I wanted to cover kind of the things that I feel like I hear controversy about or patients and their families ask about. Anything else that you've seen on social media that you think would be good for us to address?

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Yeah, I'll kind of pick some here. Um, anal sunning is a trend. Oh my god. Do you want to talk about that? Oh my god. Because I have seen skin cancers in the genital area, which I think is is more complicated than just sun, but this reminded me of that. So you want to talk about that? Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

That nobody should do this. Nobody that this should be. This should not be a thing.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

That area of your body is not used to getting sun.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

It doesn't have the same defense mechanisms. It's more vulnerable. It's kind of like I think we talked about it on a previous episode. The nails, the gel nails.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Yeah, those lights.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

And they use UV light to like set them.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

We are seeing skin cancers in nail beds of young women.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

Not good.

SPEAKER_02 46:24

And sometimes that requires amputation of the tip of their finger. Um, these areas are not naturally sun-protected because they're not designed to have sun on them. Yeah. And so that part of your body should not be getting sun.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

No.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

Also, we know that the HPV virus family can contribute to the development of skin cancer, particularly squamous cell.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Which would you connect the HPV to like the actual genital warts or just having the virus even without the manifestation of the warts?

SPEAKER_02 47:00

There are over a hundred types of the HPV virus. Okay. Some strains cause genital warts, some strains cause cervical cancer, some strains cause just common warts like plantar warts and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

All of that is HPV.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

All of that is HPV. Yeah. Um and HPV is very common in the undie area. Pretty much all adults get exposed at some point in their life. Now, most of the time, our immune system defeats that and we're able to move on. But if an area is more vulnerable because it's getting sun and the immune system defenses are down because of that, that could really put you at risk for an anal cancer. We don't.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

No, we don't. That's another one to add to the journal list. No eyelids, no, nothing down there. Yeah. That sounds very uncomfortable. Yes, yes. On so many levels. So many levels. No thanks. Yeah. Um, a lot of talk of hormone disruption, oxybenzones being bad. I guess the hormone disruptor conversation comes more with maybe the chemical sunscreens.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Yeah, yeah. But also, I don't even think that's like a proven thing. Sure. Certainly not in the medical literature. Yeah. Um, have the chemical sunscreens been linked to hormone disruption officially. But again, play it safe using titanium. You know, there's there's a safe alternative.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

Yeah. Yeah. Um, there was this um influencer person who posted about sun blocks versus sunscreens, and he was saying that no, that sunscreens are chemical and sun blocks are physical. But then there was a dermatologist that chimed in and said, no, that's not correct because the FDA actually maybe outlawed or um saying sun block because nothing blocks the sun. That's true completely.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

They're also not allowed to say waterproof. Oh, that's right anymore. They have to say water resistant because no sunscreen is completely waterproof. Okay. So I mean, I I get what they're saying. Like, you know, a sun block blocks the rays, physical blocker, yeah. Sunscreen, you know, the chemical sunscreens work by kind of altering your skin to make it more sun protectable.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:09

Have a higher sun protection factor. And so, you know, I I get kind of what they're saying, but that's not an official nomenclature.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Um arguments that humans need antioxidants from the sun, and by wearing sunscreen, we are causing inflammation in the skin. You know, inflammation is a very buzzy word.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Yes. So oxidative stress is a huge deal. We covered this when we talked a little bit about climate change. Oxidative stress, whether it's due to sun, pollutants, wildfires, etc., oxidative stress does cause inflammation. No doubt about it. In fact, that's why we think we're seeing more inflammatory skin disease with climate change because the air quality is getting poorer.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

Yeah, but that could be from like pollution and stuff like the oxidative stress. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

Yes, yes. Sun also causes oxidative stress. And so you could use something that was an antioxidant to help reverse that. I think that's why vitamin C is kind of out there as an antioxidant to help reduce signs of aging and things like that. So if you wanted to use antioxidants, like sure, more power to you. Yeah. But you the sun is actually inducing oxidative stress. The sun is not providing antioxidants.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Okay. On that line, do you want to mention? I know you want to talk about helio care.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

Oh, yes. Oh my gosh, I can't believe I had forgotten. So helio care is a natural supplement based in a fern leaf extract from South and Central America.

SPEAKER_00 50:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

And it comes in a capsule and it's taken once a day. And you can take it as needed. So, like if you have an office job and you go on vacation twice a year, you could just take it when you're on vacation. You don't have to take it every day.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Was it a certain amount before you're exposed?

SPEAKER_02 50:57

Uh just like 30 minutes before you go outside.

unknown 50:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:00

And it's just one capsule in the morning before you go outside. Very, very easy. Natural fern leaf extract. Um, you can buy it on Amazon. Some drugstores carry it in the summer, but then they won't carry it in the winter. Amazon has it year-round. The capsules are big, and so they're too large for most kids to swallow. Okay. It is safe for kids. Okay. And so you can open up the capsule, sprinkle the powder on food or in juice. Oh, nice. Um, and they can take it that way. I have a lot of kids that add it to orange juice in the morning. Perfect. Um, so very effective. Now, we don't recommend it as a complete replacement for sunscreen and other forms of sun protection, but it's an additional way to protect yourself. Yeah. In case you miss a spot, in case maybe you didn't reapply as often as you, you know, intended to. Helio care can be really good. Helio care is also really good at treating and preventing sun-sensitive skin problems. So there are things called polymorphous light eruption. Okay. Solar urticaria, dermatomyocitis, and lupus commonly cause a sun-sensitive rash. Helio care is the best thing I've ever seen at preventing and treating those. That's great. Heliocare also, while you don't have to take it every day, it depends on your lifestyle. Sure. They have some recent data showing anti-aging benefits with daily leaves.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

We like that.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it and it doesn't hurt to take it every day. No medication interactions, no side effects. Nice. Um natural leaf. Yes, yes. So a lot of people really like it. And it's a really nice blend of the natural world and the medical science world because the active ingredient in heliocare is called polypodium leucotomas.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

But heliocare as a brand is the one that has been empirically studied.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

So it's both natural but also proven.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

That's great. Yeah. To the best thing. Yeah. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 52:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

We love that. Somebody uh on our social media complimented your pronunciation of just like all the medications and ingredients and stuff. And I'm like, yeah. I'm like, well, she really cares about like doing things right. And she also was an English major, like her undergrad was English. I'm like, it's probably a combination of all the all the things that she is. Um and then there was this doctor who was like advocating for making your own sunscreen. He said, if you melt a little coconut oil, shea butter, beeswax, and then you add zinc powder in no specified amount, it might be white, but it really works. Um do you have any thoughts about that? I don't like that.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Um I think that has sunburn written all over it. Um yeah. Well, and also just like the feel of it. I mean, yeah, I would say go ahead and buy sunscreen. Plus, also, if you're buying all those ingredients, right? I bet it, you know, I bet this is cheaper for the listener. I'm holding up the LTMD spray, like than buying all those ingredients separately and like mixing it together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

That's yeah, I thought that was interesting. Yeah. Um, I mean, I saw I saw that article that you were talking about in 2019, but I didn't realize that they applied it four times a day all over. Uh there's like conflicting information about the bleaching of the coral reef. Like there was this whole group of like, I want to say they were like PhD students who did this um research who were talking about how um the validity of the study maybe wasn't like amazing. And so they were kind of like, uh, does it really bleach coral reef or not?

SPEAKER_02 54:30

I think we know zinc is safe. Zinc is elemental zinc is actually found in salt water already, just like naturally exists there. And if there's any chance, and we have this very useful amenable alternative, yeah, then it's like why use the stuff that might, you know? Let's just use the safe stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

I think you actually covered some of um what I found online, so it sounds like you're hearing a lot of the things that we are saying on the internet.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

Oh yes, because you know, and I mean that's why we're doing this because people read and see things on social media and the internet, and then a lot of them do come into a dermatologist's office and then ask about those things.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

And there is, as we all know, a lot of misinformation out there, and so hopefully the Skin Credible Podcast is is helping combat that a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

And this is a great example of like you see, like, oh, and a J A M A article sounds so official, right? Like it's a medical article, and they're saying that it might not be healthy to put on sunscreen, you know, this is coming from a doctor, but you don't have all the context of like how it was applied, how you know, I think there was a study about rats and oxybenzone, maybe they were eating the oxybenzone or something. And so it's like if you don't have all the context about how the study was done, you can just assume a bunch of things and then change your life based on those assumptions instead of actual science.

SPEAKER_02 55:51

Totally, totally. So and I saw recently online somebody talking about how it's important to be outside. Yes, like for general health and all that kind of stuff, that there's well-established evidence that human beings benefit from outdoor time. Sure, you know, and I I see that, I understand like exercising and friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I completely understand. Yeah, you can you can do both, you can protect your skin from the sun and enjoy the outdoors. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Um It doesn't have to be one or the other.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

It doesn't have to be one or the other. And even as dermatologists, like we we still go outside. Like, one of the funniest things you're ever gonna see is a group of dermatologists at a conference in Hawaii, full body swimsuit, the sunscreen on their face.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

Like, are there rebel dermatologists who just go out there and don't have all the coverage? There are. We don't have to talk about who they are.

SPEAKER_02 56:45

I know. We won't name names, but there is one who worked at the practice in Colorado who would go on vacation and go scuba diving and come back with a tan. Dermatologists with a tan. It is important to practice what you preach. Sure. And I remember growing up, like Suzanne Connolly, Dr. Suzanne Connolly, my dermatologist growing up, she had such beautiful skin. Beautiful skin. And I remember her telling us one time that she and her family were gonna go on a rafting trip down the Colorado River. And she said, you know, you're only allowed to pack this size bag and stuff. She's like, should my whole bag's gonna be sunscreen on that note. Um, thank you guys so much for tuning in. Hopefully, you've learned a lot about sunscreen, sun protection, what's true, what's not, and the important reasons to protect yourself and age gracefully.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

Yes. Thank you for being here. Please follow us, subscribe, and share with somebody who could use the knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 57:42

I love it. Thanks for tuning in, everybody. Bye.